New York, NY – Despite Gilded Age-level income inequality and the ongoing threat from Covid-19, efforts to unionize some of the biggest mega-corporations in the country only appear to be strengthening. LaborPress recently spoke to Stuart Appelbaum, president of the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union [RWDSU], about the union’s historic campaign to organize Amazon workers in Bessemer, Alabama, as well as its recent victory organizing workers at REI SoHo in Manhattan. The RWDSU leader also shared his thoughts about Starbucks workers organizing with Workers United and what all of these spirited unionization drives have in common.
LP: The initial unionization vote at the Amazon warehouse in Bessemer, Alabama, which the union lost decisively, was thrown out when the NLRB determined Amazon cheated workers. This time, ballots went out in February and the count is scheduled to start March 28. How did the ballot counting procedure in this election differ from the last time out?
SA: I think the big difference is just how the clearing process is going to be conducted. On the 28th, they are going to start clearing balance, which means determining which ballots will be counted immediately and which ballots will be challenged and set aside to be counted later if the amount of challenge ballots would be determinative of the result. And that’s true in both cases. But in the first vote count…we looked at the ballots online. So, the NLRB staff had cameras in the counting room and they would hold each ballot up to several cameras, and each party would have the opportunity to challenge. This time, rather than doing it through cameras, through Zoom, they’re going to have people in the room itself. So, it’s really not that much different.
LP: Who initiated those changes?
SA: The NLRB, but neither party asked for those changes. I think that the NLRB felt that it would expedite the process. I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but that’s how they’re going to do it.
LP: Does the RWDSU anticipate Amazon challenging the validity of many more ballots than they did following the last election?
SA: We know that Amazon challenged over 500 ballots last time… So we don’t know what they’ll do this time. We have no way of knowing.
LP: What about the mailbox issue, where one was placed on Amazon property in an Amazon tent during the initial vote, and workers had a concern that they were being surveilled?
SA: Much to our consternation, there is still a mailbox at the facility. The only difference is that it’s in a different location. We still think it’s inappropriate for it to be there.
LP: Despite ugly union-busting tactics by management, workers at REI SoHo, in lower Manhattan, overwhelmingly voted to join the RWDSU on March 2. Can you speak to the REI SoHo store union victory and how it is affecting other REI stores?
SA: There a moment out there for working people. We see more people standing up and challenging their employers, whether or not it’s organizing — or even last October when we were dealing with Striketober — people are standing up all around the country. We think that a lot of this has been inspired by what has been going on at Amazon. We have been hearing from REI workers from all over the country. They saw what happened in New York, and they’re saying we want to do the same thing at our own stores. In that way, it’s very similar to what is happening with the Starbucks campaign. Workers are coming to the union, reaching out to the union and saying, ‘We need change.’ But that was the time to do it. And we are inspired by what happened with the REI SoHo workers.
LP: What are some other factors that have contributed to this being a good climate for unionization?
SA: I think there are a lot of reasons why people are willing to stand up. I think people felt that during the pandemic, those in public-facing jobs, such as retail workers, felt that they faced additional risks, which were not appreciated. They saw how during the pandemic, even as people went to work every day and exposed themselves, and they even got sick, and some even died, that their contribution was not adequately appreciated. And they also saw, unfortunately, in too many cases, the blatant disregard by their employers for the workers’ health and safety. And we’ve seen how during the pandemic a lot of employers did incredibly well. And yet, workers were still struggling to survive. But I also think that people were inspired by the fact that Amazon workers were standing up against one of the most powerful companies in the world. And they found that if those workers can do it, they should be able to do it, too. You know, I think that one of the most exciting campaigns I’ve seen has been the Starbucks campaign. It’s not unions going to workers saying, ‘You need to organize’ it’s workers coming to unions saying ‘We are ready to organize’ — and the same thing is happening with REI.
LP: There seem to be strong parallels between Starbucks workers and REI workers. Both of them, for instance, largely view their companies as progressive, or they did at some point view their company as progressive.
SA: Absolutely amazing that people thought that they were working for progressive companies — and they weren’t. They were shocked by the “woke” union-busting that has been exhibited by REI. It’s pretty amazing that REI did a podcast for all its employees. CEO Eric Artz did a podcast where he begins trying to present himself as a progressive individual by giving his pronouns and letting us know which native lands he was speaking from — and [then] launching into a union busting tirade. People were appalled, and we’ve seen that elsewhere. Same thing with Starbucks, which like REI, is trying to crush union organizing. And that is not what we would expect from so-called self-proclaimed “progressive” employers.
LP: Both Starbucks and REI workers seem to be very well informed about the state of workers overall. How has that affected their unionization efforts?
SA: The more people know, the more they realize the importance of having a union at their workplace.
